Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Rotation Advertisements



We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum.


If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away.


Click here to Register!

If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk


If you're already a member please log in to your account:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 9
is currennt ssjb goku on par with ssjb vegeta again
Topic Started: Dec 27 2017, 11:24 PM (15,827 Views)
zombie2599
Member Avatar


i think ssjb vegeta >ssjb goku, logically as he has been training harder than goku has

but since it was said that goku broke through his shell into his deeper potentail, do you think he kept the actual power he unlocked when he broke through his potential.without ultra instinct or do u think he can only unlock that power while breaking his shell into ultra instinct
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
StrenuousSpider
Member Avatar


I feel like it should only be in UI.

But the material so far and as it stand the preview prove that vegeta should be eons above goku. I have god to blue a 50x boost and blue vegeta 2x base black. And a few other things it comes out to like. 200 or 300x difference. But thats going off material knowing how toei is they are still equals.
Posted Image




Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zombie2599
Member Avatar


i cant see that as that would overhype jiren way too much

i mean ok god to blue is 50x

blue goku goes 20x and gets stopped with just a glare, thats 1000x ssjg

then ultra instinct is an unspecified times stronger than ssjb,but we know its more than 20x

so already without UI jiren is already 1000x or more than ssjg, and thats not even his full power and you can also say he was using the same about of power the whole time against goku,but i find that unlikley
Edited by zombie2599, Dec 28 2017, 12:01 AM.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
superperfectnerd
Member Avatar


I guess we'll see next episode as the preview had Vegeta landing blows and making Jiren sweat, strain and block the Final Flash. The thing with all of this is that Goku as ssjb first fought Jiren and pushed him through a few rocks and then Jiren took him apart fairly quickly when he started fighting, then Goku tried ssjbkkx20 and Jiren smashed him with a glare, then a spirit bomb even stronger than Goku being pushed by ssjbkkx20 was effortlessly pushed back by Jiren and then an even stronger UI Goku couldn't stress Jiren out, landed a blow but then Jiren caught his punch and mocked him before UI ran out. The preview makes it look like Jiren is using more effort in this fight with Vegeta than he did against UI Goku which seems impossible.

The problem is Goku smiles in the preview whilst casually parrying Jiren's attacks and this is a weakened Goku. So... what? Goku may have become more powerful 'breaking his limits' in the dire situations he's been in and absorbed some UI power into his other forms whilst Vegeta hasn't really tried so far but that makes a very frustrating power chain for a Vegeta fan like me.

Ssjb Goku < sskbkkx20 Goku < weakened ssjb Goku (post limit break) < ssjb Vegeta < ssjb Goku (post limit break) < UI Goku

The annoying thing about this if it is like this is Vegeta has made efforts in months of training and surpassed Goku's kaioken blue at a multipler of 20 all through hard work and then before he even got to show he was Goku's superior, Goku got a free handout by happening to be broken in a fight in such a way it opened up UI for him and boosted all his other forms as well.
Edited by superperfectnerd, Dec 28 2017, 01:27 AM.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
StrenuousSpider
Member Avatar


superperfectnerd
Dec 28 2017, 01:26 AM
I guess we'll see next episode as the preview had Vegeta landing blows and making Jiren sweat, strain and block the Final Flash. The thing with all of this is that Goku as ssjb first fought Jiren and pushed him through a few rocks and then Jiren took him apart fairly quickly when he started fighting, then Goku tried ssjbkkx20 and Jiren smashed him with a glare, then a spirit bomb even stronger than Goku being pushed by ssjbkkx20 was effortlessly pushed back by Jiren and then an even stronger UI Goku couldn't stress Jiren out, landed a blow but then Jiren caught his punch and mocked him before UI ran out. The preview makes it look like Jiren is using more effort in this fight with Vegeta than he did against UI Goku which seems impossible.

The problem is Goku smiles in the preview whilst casually parrying Jiren's attacks and this is a weakened Goku. So... what? Goku may have become more powerful 'breaking his limits' in the dire situations he's been in and absorbed some UI power into his other forms whilst Vegeta hasn't really tried so far but that makes a very frustrating power chain for a Vegeta fan like me.

Ssjb Goku < sskbkkx20 Goku < weakened ssjb Goku (post limit break) < ssjb Vegeta < ssjb Goku (post limit break) < UI Goku

The annoying thing about this if it is like this is Vegeta has made efforts in months of training and surpassed Goku's kaioken blue at a multipler of 20 all through hard work and then before he even got to show he was Goku's superior, Goku got a free handout by happening to be broken in a fight in such a way it opened up UI for him and boosted all his other forms as well.
Thats the story of vegeta works hard to match goky and even surpass him but goku gets some random power up and matchs vegeta and even surpasses him.

Basically that hard work vs natural talent s***
Posted Image




Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
superperfectnerd
Member Avatar


Vegeta is the 'naturally talented' one in my opinion, there's a reason his family were stronger than the other saiyans. Goku is special because of attitude and martial arts training superior to Vegeta just lifting heavy things alone for a long time. Goku is a normal saiyan in extraordinary circumstances, it's nature versus nurture, nurture (Goku) being far more important than nature (Vegeta).

Vegeta (too proud to ask for help) < Goku < Vegeta (no pride)

Something like that. However with Goku's more diverse training and combat experience perhaps something like UI is going to come more easily to him than Vegeta but it isn't natural talent, it's something Goku has worked hard (and smart) to build.
Edited by superperfectnerd, Dec 28 2017, 03:19 AM.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Member Avatar


Goku is stated to be the strongest in U7 with Frieza as his equal so no. And that isn't even the only nail in the coffin. There isn't any implication in the story that vegeta is above Goku.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
StrenuousSpider
Member Avatar


SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Dec 28 2017, 08:11 AM
Goku is stated to be the strongest in U7 with Frieza as his equal so no. And that isn't even the only nail in the coffin. There isn't any implication in the story that vegeta is above Goku.
Goku and vegeta are equals then this stuff happens.

Goku trained for maybe 30 mins at most.
Vegeta trains with whis and in rosat twice.

Goku gets crushed by black and vegeta crushes black even after powering up from the version that smashed goku.

Goku saying he did not think he could beat toppo even with kaioken.
Vegeta had little problems with toppo even when distracted.

Goku saying of freiza acts up him or vegeta could take him down. If vegeta was weaker thats not exactly possible now is it.

Goku was said to be the strongest because pf two wonderful things.
1. Kaioken
2. Ultra instinct

Its the exact same reason why goku is stated to be stronger even by vegeta in the buu saga. Because goku had something he did not ssj3. Even tho in every other way they where equals.

Now i know you stay in your own little world where your selective mind dose not see the whole story but to say the material dose not show vegeta to be stronger is just downright wrong on so many levels. And yes we all know toei probably has the two equals still but that has yet to be shown when in same forms.
Posted Image




Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Saiyan36
Member Avatar


We see Vegeta trading a few blows with Jiren and we'd think he's like 20/30 times stronger than Blue Goku?

Blue Goku threw Jiren right through a mountain and had his a*** kicked horribly afterwards.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Saiyan36
Member Avatar


StrenuousSpider
Dec 28 2017, 09:24 AM
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Dec 28 2017, 08:11 AM
Goku is stated to be the strongest in U7 with Frieza as his equal so no. And that isn't even the only nail in the coffin. There isn't any implication in the story that vegeta is above Goku.
Goku and vegeta are equals then this stuff happens.

Goku trained for maybe 30 mins at most.
Vegeta trains with whis and in rosat twice.

Goku gets crushed by black and vegeta crushes black even after powering up from the version that smashed goku.

Goku saying he did not think he could beat toppo even with kaioken.
Vegeta had little problems with toppo even when distracted.

Goku saying of freiza acts up him or vegeta could take him down. If vegeta was weaker thats not exactly possible now is it.

Goku was said to be the strongest because pf two wonderful things.
1. Kaioken
2. Ultra instinct

Its the exact same reason why goku is stated to be stronger even by vegeta in the buu saga. Because goku had something he did not ssj3. Even tho in every other way they where equals.

Now i know you stay in your own little world where your selective mind dose not see the whole story but to say the material dose not show vegeta to be stronger is just downright wrong on so many levels. And yes we all know toei probably has the two equals still but that has yet to be shown when in same forms.
Why do you always tend to get personal, man?
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Member Avatar


StrenuousSpider
Dec 28 2017, 09:24 AM
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Dec 28 2017, 08:11 AM
Goku is stated to be the strongest in U7 with Frieza as his equal so no. And that isn't even the only nail in the coffin. There isn't any implication in the story that vegeta is above Goku.
Goku and vegeta are equals then this stuff happens.

Goku trained for maybe 30 mins at most.
Vegeta trains with whis and in rosat twice.

Goku gets crushed by black and vegeta crushes black even after powering up from the version that smashed goku.

Goku saying he did not think he could beat toppo even with kaioken.
Vegeta had little problems with toppo even when distracted.

Goku saying of freiza acts up him or vegeta could take him down. If vegeta was weaker thats not exactly possible now is it.

Goku was said to be the strongest because pf two wonderful things.
1. Kaioken
2. Ultra instinct

Its the exact same reason why goku is stated to be stronger even by vegeta in the buu saga. Because goku had something he did not ssj3. Even tho in every other way they where equals.

Now i know you stay in your own little world where your selective mind dose not see the whole story but to say the material dose not show vegeta to be stronger is just downright wrong on so many levels. And yes we all know toei probably has the two equals still but that has yet to be shown when in same forms.
Irrelevant. Vegeta was stronger than Goku during the black fight and that's it. It doesn't matter if vegeta trained in the rosat twice. He isnt gokus superior. And Goku already pushed back vegetas full power during the baseball match after the black arc and Goku wasn't doing any training after the black arc.

Goku is the stated strongest in U7 and Frieza is stated to be his equal. Can't get around it, so vegeta isn't stronger than Ssb Goku or frieza. So vegeta is at most equal to those 2.

I'm not really interested in having a "debate" in which you pretend that vegeta being massively stronger than Goku despite the people that make the show saying otherwise is somehow an assertion that makes any sense whatsoever.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
* Yu Narukami
Default Avatar
Izanagi!

Out of curiosity, where exactly did the show state that Goku was the strongest?
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Member Avatar


Toei stated that he was the strongest.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
* Yu Narukami
Default Avatar
Izanagi!

SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Dec 28 2017, 07:16 PM
Toei stated that he was the strongest.
Where did they state it?
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
superperfectnerd
Member Avatar


SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Dec 28 2017, 06:59 PM
StrenuousSpider
Dec 28 2017, 09:24 AM
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Dec 28 2017, 08:11 AM
Goku is stated to be the strongest in U7 with Frieza as his equal so no. And that isn't even the only nail in the coffin. There isn't any implication in the story that vegeta is above Goku.
Goku and vegeta are equals then this stuff happens.

Goku trained for maybe 30 mins at most.
Vegeta trains with whis and in rosat twice.

Goku gets crushed by black and vegeta crushes black even after powering up from the version that smashed goku.

Goku saying he did not think he could beat toppo even with kaioken.
Vegeta had little problems with toppo even when distracted.

Goku saying of freiza acts up him or vegeta could take him down. If vegeta was weaker thats not exactly possible now is it.

Goku was said to be the strongest because pf two wonderful things.
1. Kaioken
2. Ultra instinct

Its the exact same reason why goku is stated to be stronger even by vegeta in the buu saga. Because goku had something he did not ssj3. Even tho in every other way they where equals.

Now i know you stay in your own little world where your selective mind dose not see the whole story but to say the material dose not show vegeta to be stronger is just downright wrong on so many levels. And yes we all know toei probably has the two equals still but that has yet to be shown when in same forms.
Irrelevant. Vegeta was stronger than Goku during the black fight and that's it. It doesn't matter if vegeta trained in the rosat twice. He isnt gokus superior. And Goku already pushed back vegetas full power during the baseball match after the black arc and Goku wasn't doing any training after the black arc.

Goku is the stated strongest in U7 and Frieza is stated to be his equal. Can't get around it, so vegeta isn't stronger than Ssb Goku or frieza. So vegeta is at most equal to those 2.

I'm not really interested in having a "debate" in which you pretend that vegeta being massively stronger than Goku despite the people that make the show saying otherwise is somehow an assertion that makes any sense whatsoever.
Toei stated something going into the TOP which may become apparent to be untrue. Thy aren't going to let slip if Vegeta is the strongest as that's a surprise. Why would they reveal that before it happens? Goku was also the strongest at the start of the Cell saga but he wasn't all the way through the arc. I don't think that's proof of anything. If Vegeta is somehow amazingly strong in the next episode it'll be a shock to Goku, Freeza, Beerus, Whis and the audience. That's the whole point.

And also haha! As if the baseball episode counts for anything in terms of feats! That's a gag! Ssjb baseball is obviously a joke about Goku and Vegeta's rivalry. That can't count as a feat... come on now.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
0 users reading this topic
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Dragon Ball Super · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 9

Theme Designed by McKee91